In this powerful episode of Church Leadership in Focus, host Don Hicks sits down with Pastor David Lones to explore Jesus’ teaching in John 15 and what it means for pastors and ministry leaders today.

Instead of viewing obedience as a heavy burden or a performance scorecard, Jesus invites leaders to see obedience as the natural fruit of abiding in Him. This episode walks through the heart of Christian leadership—leading from connection, not compulsion… from relationship, not results… from abiding, not striving.

Whether you’re a pastor, elder, deacon, ministry leader, or simply someone wanting to grow deeper in Christ, this conversation will refresh your soul and re‑center your leadership.

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